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Fort Utah Neighborhood Meeting - Shared screen with speaker view
Cameron Crossett
28:48
It appears like part of the presentation is being cut off. Are other people seeing that?
Benjamin Bikman
29:22
It looks good now.
KristenR
31:20
me too
Mercer
40:41
I worry about our school crossing with the increased traffic over the years.
Lianne
41:32
Shennon--the school community council has been working with the police depart and the safety committee on that issue.
Rachel
43:42
I do feel like we are already coming close to the max Center can handle. I know during peak times we have waited upwards of 10 minutes before we could get from our cross street onto Center
Robert Mills
45:55
LDR is 12 units per acre.
Robert Mills
46:04
:)
KristenR
47:21
Cynthia Richards: Kristen Randle I read your FB post and you’re right. I hope your neighbors can have the same important vision. Good growth takes work, wisdom, foresight and understanding. You need and deserve someone who really cares and really listens - and then really teams up with those that care long term. It’s got to be about people’s long term well being.
Mercer
47:38
When was that traffic study done? During the school year or during the summer?
KristenR
47:46
Yes but we had the west side study - and it was just thrown out after years of work.
Staci
47:56
Who did the traffic study?
KristenR
48:12
Those people were saints. Their work deserves respect and attention.
KristenR
50:11
I went to a few - it was serious business
Guy Randle
50:13
I think the map makes a lot of sense, and shows that a LOT of work and thought went into it.
Ross
52:33
yes, agree Guy
Staci
52:55
Has anyone talked to UDOT or MAG to get their traffic studies? Do they show the same info?
KristenR
56:19
I’m with Staci
Cameron Crossett
57:00
Can we get an understanding of where this development is on the larger 10,000 foot view of the map with the different nodes?
Mercer
57:12
Jason could you please turn your camera on so we can put a name with a face?
Mercer
57:52
Whats a 3 plex mansion. And what does it mean to be the owner?
Sarah Hill
58:03
Is it normal to have to submit 2 plans to the city? That seems unusual.
KristenR
58:32
I’d like to see him, too.
Jamie Martin
59:19
I'm for the original plan--for single plan homes. That's the one we were all for in the last meeting, and it fits the map and the west side plan.
KristenR
59:39
me too
Kathy Van Wagoner
59:41
Where is this relative to center street? I agree with single family homes.
Lianne
59:46
does anyone actually upsize or downsize and stay in the same 2 block radius??
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:00:28
Where is that relative to Busker’s house?
Jamie Martin
01:00:50
It's right North of Busker's house
Rachel
01:00:55
I believe it is just north of the Busker's
Jesse Busker
01:00:56
bordering on the north
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:00:56
And that church?
David Harding
01:01:04
Here are some images of mansion houses: https://cdn.aarp.net/content/dam/aarp/livable-communities/housing/2020/1140x665-fourplexes.web.jpg
MrG_iPhone
01:01:11
How will these affect the grade with the existing development on the west wide of the new development. Will they build a retaining wall with new fencing?
Guy Randle
01:01:15
Why would the threeplex “mansions” have to be rentals?
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:01:40
Jesse, between you and the river? How can that be?
Guy Randle
01:02:47
Those elevations of the mansions look nice, for what that’s worth.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:03:04
Jesse, I’m sorry.
Lianne
01:03:45
It seems that if there are only 271 SF homes vs 1800+ apartments (according to the data given by Jonathan on building permits) that there would be a NEED for SF lots.
Michael Nielson
01:03:46
How many total acres are you developing. How many lots on the single family home plan. And can you show us how big the lots are not in square feet. (like .19, .25 etc.) Also how many homes per acre does your single family home plan average per lot not including roads. The actual house site acreage.
Rachel
01:03:56
I like the first plan with just single family housing the best
Shannon Ellsworth
01:04:10
I’m a renter. I’m a good neighbor.
Shannon Ellsworth
01:04:38
I’ve got to step away for another meeting with a non-profit board. I can be reached at sellsworth@provo.org or 801-900-3217.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:06:38
1/4 - 1/2 acre lots sounds reasonable.
MrG_iPhone
01:07:44
The smaller lots and townhomes is not a good plan for the area. In my opinion.
Cameron Crossett
01:08:53
I would only be in favor of proposal 1 that has the single family homes. Those size lots match the surrounding areas and fits with the “feel” of the area, in my opinion.
Rachel
01:09:03
What is the estimated increase in traffic? Strain on the sewer system?
Lianne
01:09:15
would the 'trail' between that property and existing homes disappear?
Mikell Heinz
01:09:41
I vote to keep the development single family as proposed at the last meeting. it seemed like everyone was happy with that and it goes along with the general city plan that was just shown.
Jamie Martin
01:10:55
I agree with keeping it low density to match the surrounding neighborhoods and to preserve the river.
Teri McCabe
01:11:43
Melanie Allen has her hand raised
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:12:20
YEah!!!! A park!
Lianne
01:13:36
How do the number of homes in this development and the other one you keep showing affect the number of children feeing into Amelia Earhart Elementary.
Christa Lydiksen
01:14:18
I support the plan with single family homes.
Rachel
01:15:53
I have been over in the Vineyard area lately where they are putting lots of town homes and apartments with single family housing and the traffic is horrible, even though they have wider roads than we do. I don't want our neighborhood to go in that direction. Especially where we don't have a lot of commercial resources in our area (grocery store, food establishments,etc). We also don't have good public transportation connecting us to the center of the city and to the east side.
Teri McCabe
01:16:42
Lianne- The city community development said Provo has 3.4 kids per unit from the Census records. Depending on how many units actually get built x by 3.4 and that's how many more kids are going to Amelia.
Lianne
01:17:08
I 2nd everything Rick is saying!
Cameron Crossett
01:17:23
AMEN!
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:18:10
Rick is spot on!
Rebecca’s iPhone
01:18:22
I also 100% agree with Rick! That IS the draw to this area. Take that away and what do we have left? Tons of traffic and an airport.
Andrew
01:18:30
Have any plans or studies been done to address the additional traffic this would create on center street? Could we get a light at the intersection to Amelia Earhart?
Jamie Martin
01:18:44
I agree with Rick 100%
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:19:12
Yes - to multi-family units don’t fit — it is bad enough to keep adding more single-family houses.
Rachel
01:19:15
The Pollock family 100% agrees with Rick
Lianne
01:19:27
Police Department study says 'there is not enough traffic consistently' to support a light there.
Rebecca’s iPhone
01:20:05
We understand people want to live here and will. But do it right. Plenty of apartments are going up in downtown for renters.
Teri McCabe
01:20:12
Andrew- There are plans to change the intersection at 2530 West and Center Street for all the kids walking/biking to Amelia.
Jean Mulliner
01:20:38
I also agree with Rick. I love this area and I hate to see the green areas disappear and they will disappear. Help us keep it green and sort of wild.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:20:41
PLEASE don’t sell to people who want a city experience and are likely to complain about smelly cows/horses.
Mikell Heinz
01:21:52
Yes! we moved here 11 years ago for peace and quiet. Ivory Homes ruined that for us which is why we purchased our land there on the river. Please keep it quaint! Thank you Rick! Very well said!
Mercer
01:22:00
I have my hand up
Lianne
01:22:04
Teri- the SF plan adds 72 lots--adding 245 kids siphoning through Amelia Earhart. That doesn't include the other development or how many more the High Density plan would add. AME doesn't have that much expansion room.
KristenR
01:22:36
YES
Lianne
01:23:10
The plan for the school crossing intersection is to create actual turn lanes. That's it.
Teri McCabe
01:23:34
Yep, including the developments happening in the Lakewood and Provo Bay neighborhoods, the schools will be busting.
Rachel
01:24:23
Yes only Option A
Jamie Martin
01:25:43
Yes only option A
danielle
01:26:14
So question then? To Rick and everyone else do they not realize that a farmer sold their land to build their home?
Rebecca’s iPhone
01:26:54
Yes. We understand that. We just don’t want condos.
KristenR
01:27:28
Yes with Jamie, Rick and Rachel
Andrew
01:27:49
Aaron we feel the same. Considered Mapleton instead.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:28:32
Sadly, many of us will be leaving due to the growth. I can’t imagine staying when the field behind me goes up in houses.
Rebecca’s iPhone
01:29:28
Yes. We will probably be leaving if this all goes in townhomes and small lots with tons of cars parked everywhere.
Rachel
01:30:42
I lived in Russia and Romania where there are very few houses and mostly apartments that are 5-10 stories high and it is a very different feel from what we are trying to create in this area. They also had a grocery store or cafe in every other building and excellent public transportation all things we don't or wouldn't have. I know that what I experienced there is an extremely different concept then what is being proposed here but I also worry that moving the line even a little away from single family homes will lead to bigger changes in the future
Jamie Martin
01:32:47
Let's not forget about problems that could arise such as sewer problems, raising taxes to pay for even more improvements to the sewer, and imminent domain on center street to accommodate traffic.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:32:59
I lived in a housing tract of 1/2 horse property lots — it was fabulous. A horse trail ran between our back fence lines. Can we do some developments like that around her?
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:33:14
*here
KristenR
01:34:49
Amen to this.
KristenR
01:35:55
Amen in spades.
Jamie Martin
01:37:00
Amen to Shennon. Traffic already backups quite a bit on Lakeshore Drive also when the high school gets out. I look out my window and see a line of cars and In think what is going on, and then I remember, oh i'ts school getting out.
Rick Smith
01:37:01
What we ask for is development that is thoughtful, that strives to preserve what we have. The original single family home plan is the best of the proposals. The other two result in greater diminution of the quality and character of the surrounding area.
Rachel
01:37:32
I appreciate that the developer's original plan was in line with what we in the area want, I hope the city council will get on board
Jamie Martin
01:38:06
I hope the city council will respect the plan and our wishes
Aaron McCullough
01:38:09
One important point to consider: The grocery stores that have told the city "no" have cited that West Provo has an average income per household that is too low. This single-family development with large lots and large homes will increase the average household income on the west side, thereby getting us that much closer to a grocery store. However, if this development moves to high density, then the average income per household will not have the positive bump.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:40:40
We do a clean up once a year. Ben is talking about a system that perpetually cleans the river.
Miurvy Busker
01:41:19
I live on Lakeshore Drive, when Provo High School gets out and it is combined a flight departure from the airport, we can't get out of our driveway. in occasion it has taken me about 4 minutes to get out of my driveway.
Lianne
01:42:44
There is a community feel here because of the openness--when you cram in the housing, people don't care about the community, the river becomes someone else's problem. (speaking from experience).
Ross
01:43:03
Yes, David, but the land has sold. The developer presented a plan. The neighborhood approved it.
Kathy Van Wagoner
01:43:10
David, that is why we are asking for development that perpetuates the way of life out here as best as possible — larger lots, more space, fewer houses/people
Rachel
01:43:58
If the farmer wants to sell the field and another farmer doesn't want to take it over then I am ok with development with large lots and single family homes, green space with parks and trails not apartments or lots of town homes.
Lianne
01:44:14
no one here is asking for this land to stay fields. we understand development has to happen, growth happens. We are only asking to keep it consistent with the existing life out here.
Ross
01:44:45
If you want to talk about property rights--what about the developer? They came up with a plan that they thought would be most profitable. And WE APPROVED THAT PLAN.
Mercer
01:45:16
More open green larger areas. When development happens. Larger lots.
Rick Smith
01:45:20
But the policy says to "enact ordinances" regarding the mixed development. It does not say every development must have mixed. Have the ordinances been enacted?
Jamie Martin
01:45:47
What doesn't fit
Gary
01:47:06
sounds like the council has its mind made up and the neighborhood has no say. Very disappointing
Rachel
01:47:12
David Harding, you don't live in our area but you still have a responsibility to uphold the wishes of the neighborhood and we have shown how this does fit the plan for this area!
KristenR
01:47:43
No kidding
Rick Smith
01:47:51
Again, the mixture of housing types is NOT required by the policies. The policy is that the Council should enact ordinances.
KristenR
01:48:04
Amen
Rachel
01:48:05
This is exactly what everyone was worried about, that the city won't uphold their end of our plans
Mercer
01:48:43
How many cars are going to be for those people leaving in those mansions?
Sarah Hill
01:48:59
It seems like a bit of a conflict of interest to tell us that you will not vote for anything except the plan that you helped to create. That is disappointing to me. The original plan meets the plan, so you should vote for it.
Lianne
01:49:10
The neighborhood on 3000 west has all types, retirees, families with teens, families with elementary, and families with children who haven't gone to school yet. we have all the same size lot and house (more or less)
Ross
01:49:16
Yes. absolutely agree Sarah!
Gary
01:49:34
totally agree!
Christa Lydiksen
01:49:34
Most of my neighbors that are moving are leaving West Provo because there aren't any larger lots with homes available. There are still a lot of people that do not want to have tiny yards and be crammed in next to their neighbors. There is no mixture of homes if there aren't larger lots and home options to choose from in West Provo.
Jamie Martin
01:49:37
Yes to Sarah as well
KristenR
01:49:56
I have lost my trust in the process and the people.
Rachel
01:50:37
The city council's responsibility is to the citizens it represents not their own interests and agendas
Lianne
01:50:38
Do people actually buy homes with shared driveways???
KristenR
01:50:59
Shared drives are actually against the zoning poicies
Rachel
01:51:30
Yes it is threatening! Plan A is in alignment with the plan, get on board with our (the people's) wishes
Becky’s
01:51:45
What are the opinions of the other 2 council members in this meeting?
KristenR
01:51:53
He won’t stop till he wears everyone down.
Rachel
01:52:34
He won't wear me down, I'm ready for a fight!!!
Gary
01:53:21
you need to listen to the people you represent
KristenR
01:54:21
And don’t throw out concern for the poor farmers at me. I KNOW John Hinkley. I know what he’s gone through with the city. The City doesn’t love the farmers. I wish when they were finished, they’d sell the land to PEOPLE - but the swooping developers take EVERYTHING. People have NO CHANCE to compute. When Nellie’s son in law sold me that lot He SAVED my heart. And the last thing he said to me was DO NOT LET THEM get the land.
Rachel
01:55:15
Correct, it does not maintain that character
Jesse Busker
01:55:56
I agree, the layout and shared access is not congruent
Rachel
01:56:19
I agree with Ross, it does follow the plan
KristenR
01:56:27
We’ve heard developers lie to our faces and we sent one to prison for fraud. They don’t care about the people. They don’t care about the character of our home. And I don’t feel like the city cares about the single people at ALL. It’s big money that brings the pressure - and I’ve caught more than one man in a lie. And I’ve seen what happens when the builders take short cuts and build badly. So why couldn’t the farmer allow people to get together with them and leave the damn developers out of it.
KristenR
01:57:28
Single family homes. Less cars. Less property taxes do to hauling in huge sewer systems DAVE - SERVE US. That’s your job.
Jesse Busker
01:57:32
Here here
Rachel
01:57:36
Thank you Aaron!!!!
Sarah Hill
01:58:47
“Can’t the tie go to the neighbors?” That is the question of the night. Please respect the people who live here.
Lianne
01:59:04
and TECHNICALLY 4.1 lots/acre is still OVER 4. . .
Rachel
01:59:12
Amen Sarah!
KristenR
01:59:36
BUT???? BUT???
KristenR
02:00:08
The best way. maybe not what you think
Jamie Martin
02:00:09
We have a strong vibrant community
Mercer
02:00:10
Says you!!
Jesse Busker
02:00:13
broad and apparently silent and non-existent
Gary
02:00:53
No
Rachel
02:01:15
David, how many of these mixed multi-family/residential "best practices" areas are in your neighborhood and are you voting for in your area?
Mercer
02:01:17
So this meeting is a mute point. David you have already made up your mind on which one your picking?
Sarah Hill
02:01:20
I don’t see any single family homes being put in downtown. One housing type… Why do you think your opinion is more important than everyone else’s?
Rebecca’s iPhone
02:01:22
I’ve lived in this area for 40 years. I disagree with it being a more vibrant community with mixed housing. At least in this little pocket.
KristenR
02:01:25
We do already. We have a strong community. YOU are bringing in so much that will change things - cost more, more traffic. It doesn’t add up.
Ross
02:01:43
very good point Sarah
KristenR
02:01:59
1/10 should be the very smallest
Jesse Busker
02:02:16
nope
KristenR
02:02:40
WE DID HAVE ONE
Rebecca’s iPhone
02:02:41
Are there not going to be more chances for apartments and condos on lakeshore parkway
KristenR
02:03:10
We HAD a plan, thank you very much.
KristenR
02:03:38
Me either
Rachel
02:04:14
So, all the hard work and effort that went into the plan Jonathon described at the beginning of this meeting isn't really the plan? My understanding is that we do have a plan
Mercer
02:06:31
So you get the large lots?
Lianne
02:06:48
what are the square footage ranges for the HOUSES and how are you counting lot 72 as a lot since you said you don't have that land.
KristenR
02:08:06
I like the option to exit the cookie cutter thing. WE built our own house in a terribly boring development - than heaven I love my neighbors.
Kathy Van Wagoner
02:08:33
Can we do the poll now and let the discussions continue? I doubt the discussions are going to influence poll decisions
Lianne
02:08:54
Thank you JASON!!
KristenR
02:09:34
YES!
KristenR
02:09:53
YOU GO, SARAH!!!
Lianne
02:10:14
ie. how many apartments are going into the 14 story millrace apartments? not a SF house on that property
Jesse Busker
02:10:24
the plan is... oh yeah silent?
KristenR
02:10:29
Jonathan and David disagree, and so do SO many of US disagree with David.
Gary
02:10:30
That is just your preconceived plan
MrG_iPhone
02:10:37
Well said Sarah.
Ross
02:11:23
exactly!
Shannon Ellsworth
02:11:39
Downtown there are single family homes, townhomes, and apartments within a mile radius.
Ross
02:12:09
but not in a newly approved development
Emma Gadeski
02:12:32
can someone clarify for me? what policies is everyone referring to?
Ross
02:12:33
within multiple developments that occurred over the course of many, many years
KristenR
02:13:12
But we want to make it something that we, now, desire. for the rest of our own lives.
Mercer
02:14:23
Where did that survey go?
Lianne
02:14:56
won't let me submit
Christa Lydiksen
02:15:39
Will you clarify which plans are clustered and mixed?
Gary
02:17:15
It wont et us move beyond #3
Gary
02:17:23
yes
Mercer
02:17:40
Done
KristenR
02:17:53
Because it won’t let you go if you don’t pick something.
MrG_iPhone
02:19:09
The original plan is the only one that should be considered
iPhone
02:19:23
So which plan is the front running with the city council now?
Rebecca’s iPhone
02:19:50
Thank you Jonathan and all who came and shared.
Rachel
02:19:57
Thanks Jonathon for hosting this and thank you to everyone who participated
Gary
02:20:07
Thank you Jonathan
Michael Nielson
02:20:22
thanks jonathon
Ross
02:21:05
Thanks Jonathan
cox family
02:21:20
ThANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, NO YELLING
cox family
02:21:34
sorry caps on