It appears like part of the presentation is being cut off. Are other people seeing that?

It looks good now.

me too

I worry about our school crossing with the increased traffic over the years.

Shennon--the school community council has been working with the police depart and the safety committee on that issue.

I do feel like we are already coming close to the max Center can handle. I know during peak times we have waited upwards of 10 minutes before we could get from our cross street onto Center

LDR is 12 units per acre.

:)

Cynthia Richards: Kristen Randle I read your FB post and you’re right. I hope your neighbors can have the same important vision. Good growth takes work, wisdom, foresight and understanding. You need and deserve someone who really cares and really listens - and then really teams up with those that care long term. It’s got to be about people’s long term well being.

When was that traffic study done? During the school year or during the summer?

Yes but we had the west side study - and it was just thrown out after years of work.

Who did the traffic study?

Those people were saints. Their work deserves respect and attention.

I went to a few - it was serious business

I think the map makes a lot of sense, and shows that a LOT of work and thought went into it.

yes, agree Guy

Has anyone talked to UDOT or MAG to get their traffic studies? Do they show the same info?

I’m with Staci

Can we get an understanding of where this development is on the larger 10,000 foot view of the map with the different nodes?

Jason could you please turn your camera on so we can put a name with a face?

Whats a 3 plex mansion. And what does it mean to be the owner?

Is it normal to have to submit 2 plans to the city? That seems unusual.

I’d like to see him, too.

I'm for the original plan--for single plan homes. That's the one we were all for in the last meeting, and it fits the map and the west side plan.

me too

Where is this relative to center street? I agree with single family homes.

does anyone actually upsize or downsize and stay in the same 2 block radius??

Where is that relative to Busker’s house?

It's right North of Busker's house

I believe it is just north of the Busker's

bordering on the north

And that church?

Here are some images of mansion houses: https://cdn.aarp.net/content/dam/aarp/livable-communities/housing/2020/1140x665-fourplexes.web.jpg

How will these affect the grade with the existing development on the west wide of the new development. Will they build a retaining wall with new fencing?

Why would the threeplex “mansions” have to be rentals?

Jesse, between you and the river? How can that be?

Those elevations of the mansions look nice, for what that’s worth.

Jesse, I’m sorry.

It seems that if there are only 271 SF homes vs 1800+ apartments (according to the data given by Jonathan on building permits) that there would be a NEED for SF lots.

How many total acres are you developing. How many lots on the single family home plan. And can you show us how big the lots are not in square feet. (like .19, .25 etc.) Also how many homes per acre does your single family home plan average per lot not including roads. The actual house site acreage.

I like the first plan with just single family housing the best

I’m a renter. I’m a good neighbor.

I’ve got to step away for another meeting with a non-profit board. I can be reached at sellsworth@provo.org or 801-900-3217.

1/4 - 1/2 acre lots sounds reasonable.

The smaller lots and townhomes is not a good plan for the area. In my opinion.

I would only be in favor of proposal 1 that has the single family homes. Those size lots match the surrounding areas and fits with the “feel” of the area, in my opinion.

What is the estimated increase in traffic? Strain on the sewer system?

would the 'trail' between that property and existing homes disappear?

I vote to keep the development single family as proposed at the last meeting. it seemed like everyone was happy with that and it goes along with the general city plan that was just shown.

I agree with keeping it low density to match the surrounding neighborhoods and to preserve the river.

Melanie Allen has her hand raised

YEah!!!! A park!

How do the number of homes in this development and the other one you keep showing affect the number of children feeing into Amelia Earhart Elementary.

I support the plan with single family homes.

I have been over in the Vineyard area lately where they are putting lots of town homes and apartments with single family housing and the traffic is horrible, even though they have wider roads than we do. I don't want our neighborhood to go in that direction. Especially where we don't have a lot of commercial resources in our area (grocery store, food establishments,etc). We also don't have good public transportation connecting us to the center of the city and to the east side.

Lianne- The city community development said Provo has 3.4 kids per unit from the Census records. Depending on how many units actually get built x by 3.4 and that's how many more kids are going to Amelia.

I 2nd everything Rick is saying!

AMEN!

Rick is spot on!

I also 100% agree with Rick! That IS the draw to this area. Take that away and what do we have left? Tons of traffic and an airport.

Have any plans or studies been done to address the additional traffic this would create on center street? Could we get a light at the intersection to Amelia Earhart?

I agree with Rick 100%

Yes - to multi-family units don’t fit — it is bad enough to keep adding more single-family houses.

The Pollock family 100% agrees with Rick

Police Department study says 'there is not enough traffic consistently' to support a light there.

We understand people want to live here and will. But do it right. Plenty of apartments are going up in downtown for renters.

Andrew- There are plans to change the intersection at 2530 West and Center Street for all the kids walking/biking to Amelia.

I also agree with Rick. I love this area and I hate to see the green areas disappear and they will disappear. Help us keep it green and sort of wild.

PLEASE don’t sell to people who want a city experience and are likely to complain about smelly cows/horses.

Yes! we moved here 11 years ago for peace and quiet. Ivory Homes ruined that for us which is why we purchased our land there on the river. Please keep it quaint! Thank you Rick! Very well said!

I have my hand up

Teri- the SF plan adds 72 lots--adding 245 kids siphoning through Amelia Earhart. That doesn't include the other development or how many more the High Density plan would add. AME doesn't have that much expansion room.

YES

The plan for the school crossing intersection is to create actual turn lanes. That's it.

Yep, including the developments happening in the Lakewood and Provo Bay neighborhoods, the schools will be busting.

Yes only Option A

Yes only option A

So question then? To Rick and everyone else do they not realize that a farmer sold their land to build their home?

Yes. We understand that. We just don’t want condos.

Yes with Jamie, Rick and Rachel

Aaron we feel the same. Considered Mapleton instead.

Sadly, many of us will be leaving due to the growth. I can’t imagine staying when the field behind me goes up in houses.

Yes. We will probably be leaving if this all goes in townhomes and small lots with tons of cars parked everywhere.

I lived in Russia and Romania where there are very few houses and mostly apartments that are 5-10 stories high and it is a very different feel from what we are trying to create in this area. They also had a grocery store or cafe in every other building and excellent public transportation all things we don't or wouldn't have. I know that what I experienced there is an extremely different concept then what is being proposed here but I also worry that moving the line even a little away from single family homes will lead to bigger changes in the future

Let's not forget about problems that could arise such as sewer problems, raising taxes to pay for even more improvements to the sewer, and imminent domain on center street to accommodate traffic.

I lived in a housing tract of 1/2 horse property lots — it was fabulous. A horse trail ran between our back fence lines. Can we do some developments like that around her?

*here

Amen to this.

Amen in spades.

Amen to Shennon. Traffic already backups quite a bit on Lakeshore Drive also when the high school gets out. I look out my window and see a line of cars and In think what is going on, and then I remember, oh i'ts school getting out.

What we ask for is development that is thoughtful, that strives to preserve what we have. The original single family home plan is the best of the proposals. The other two result in greater diminution of the quality and character of the surrounding area.

I appreciate that the developer's original plan was in line with what we in the area want, I hope the city council will get on board

I hope the city council will respect the plan and our wishes

One important point to consider: The grocery stores that have told the city "no" have cited that West Provo has an average income per household that is too low. This single-family development with large lots and large homes will increase the average household income on the west side, thereby getting us that much closer to a grocery store. However, if this development moves to high density, then the average income per household will not have the positive bump.

We do a clean up once a year. Ben is talking about a system that perpetually cleans the river.

I live on Lakeshore Drive, when Provo High School gets out and it is combined a flight departure from the airport, we can't get out of our driveway. in occasion it has taken me about 4 minutes to get out of my driveway.

There is a community feel here because of the openness--when you cram in the housing, people don't care about the community, the river becomes someone else's problem. (speaking from experience).

Yes, David, but the land has sold. The developer presented a plan. The neighborhood approved it.

David, that is why we are asking for development that perpetuates the way of life out here as best as possible — larger lots, more space, fewer houses/people

If the farmer wants to sell the field and another farmer doesn't want to take it over then I am ok with development with large lots and single family homes, green space with parks and trails not apartments or lots of town homes.

no one here is asking for this land to stay fields. we understand development has to happen, growth happens. We are only asking to keep it consistent with the existing life out here.

If you want to talk about property rights--what about the developer? They came up with a plan that they thought would be most profitable. And WE APPROVED THAT PLAN.

More open green larger areas. When development happens. Larger lots.

But the policy says to "enact ordinances" regarding the mixed development. It does not say every development must have mixed. Have the ordinances been enacted?

What doesn't fit

sounds like the council has its mind made up and the neighborhood has no say. Very disappointing

David Harding, you don't live in our area but you still have a responsibility to uphold the wishes of the neighborhood and we have shown how this does fit the plan for this area!

No kidding

Again, the mixture of housing types is NOT required by the policies. The policy is that the Council should enact ordinances.

Amen

This is exactly what everyone was worried about, that the city won't uphold their end of our plans

How many cars are going to be for those people leaving in those mansions?

It seems like a bit of a conflict of interest to tell us that you will not vote for anything except the plan that you helped to create. That is disappointing to me. The original plan meets the plan, so you should vote for it.

The neighborhood on 3000 west has all types, retirees, families with teens, families with elementary, and families with children who haven't gone to school yet. we have all the same size lot and house (more or less)

Yes. absolutely agree Sarah!

totally agree!

Most of my neighbors that are moving are leaving West Provo because there aren't any larger lots with homes available. There are still a lot of people that do not want to have tiny yards and be crammed in next to their neighbors. There is no mixture of homes if there aren't larger lots and home options to choose from in West Provo.

Yes to Sarah as well

I have lost my trust in the process and the people.

The city council's responsibility is to the citizens it represents not their own interests and agendas

Do people actually buy homes with shared driveways???

Shared drives are actually against the zoning poicies

Yes it is threatening! Plan A is in alignment with the plan, get on board with our (the people's) wishes

What are the opinions of the other 2 council members in this meeting?

He won’t stop till he wears everyone down.

He won't wear me down, I'm ready for a fight!!!

you need to listen to the people you represent

And don’t throw out concern for the poor farmers at me. I KNOW John Hinkley. I know what he’s gone through with the city. The City doesn’t love the farmers. I wish when they were finished, they’d sell the land to PEOPLE - but the swooping developers take EVERYTHING. People have NO CHANCE to compute. When Nellie’s son in law sold me that lot He SAVED my heart. And the last thing he said to me was DO NOT LET THEM get the land.

Correct, it does not maintain that character

I agree, the layout and shared access is not congruent

I agree with Ross, it does follow the plan

We’ve heard developers lie to our faces and we sent one to prison for fraud. They don’t care about the people. They don’t care about the character of our home. And I don’t feel like the city cares about the single people at ALL. It’s big money that brings the pressure - and I’ve caught more than one man in a lie. And I’ve seen what happens when the builders take short cuts and build badly. So why couldn’t the farmer allow people to get together with them and leave the damn developers out of it.

Single family homes. Less cars. Less property taxes do to hauling in huge sewer systems DAVE - SERVE US. That’s your job.

Here here

Thank you Aaron!!!!

“Can’t the tie go to the neighbors?” That is the question of the night. Please respect the people who live here.

and TECHNICALLY 4.1 lots/acre is still OVER 4. . .

Amen Sarah!

BUT???? BUT???

The best way. maybe not what you think

We have a strong vibrant community

Says you!!

broad and apparently silent and non-existent

No

David, how many of these mixed multi-family/residential "best practices" areas are in your neighborhood and are you voting for in your area?

So this meeting is a mute point. David you have already made up your mind on which one your picking?

I don’t see any single family homes being put in downtown. One housing type… Why do you think your opinion is more important than everyone else’s?

I’ve lived in this area for 40 years. I disagree with it being a more vibrant community with mixed housing. At least in this little pocket.

We do already. We have a strong community. YOU are bringing in so much that will change things - cost more, more traffic. It doesn’t add up.

very good point Sarah

1/10 should be the very smallest

nope

WE DID HAVE ONE

Are there not going to be more chances for apartments and condos on lakeshore parkway

We HAD a plan, thank you very much.

Me either

So, all the hard work and effort that went into the plan Jonathon described at the beginning of this meeting isn't really the plan? My understanding is that we do have a plan

So you get the large lots?

what are the square footage ranges for the HOUSES and how are you counting lot 72 as a lot since you said you don't have that land.

I like the option to exit the cookie cutter thing. WE built our own house in a terribly boring development - than heaven I love my neighbors.

Can we do the poll now and let the discussions continue? I doubt the discussions are going to influence poll decisions

Thank you JASON!!

YES!

YOU GO, SARAH!!!

ie. how many apartments are going into the 14 story millrace apartments? not a SF house on that property

the plan is... oh yeah silent?

Jonathan and David disagree, and so do SO many of US disagree with David.

That is just your preconceived plan

Well said Sarah.

exactly!

Downtown there are single family homes, townhomes, and apartments within a mile radius.

but not in a newly approved development

can someone clarify for me? what policies is everyone referring to?

within multiple developments that occurred over the course of many, many years

But we want to make it something that we, now, desire. for the rest of our own lives.

Where did that survey go?

won't let me submit

Will you clarify which plans are clustered and mixed?

It wont et us move beyond #3

yes

Done

Because it won’t let you go if you don’t pick something.

The original plan is the only one that should be considered

So which plan is the front running with the city council now?

Thank you Jonathan and all who came and shared.

Thanks Jonathon for hosting this and thank you to everyone who participated

Thank you Jonathan

thanks jonathon

Thanks Jonathan

ThANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, NO YELLING

sorry caps on